Quantum Consciousness - 2007/07/06 13:22One of the scientific paradigms applied to account for consciousness is quantum mechanics. One of the most remarkable works in this area is (Hameroff and Penrose, 1996) [1]. Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose propose that consciousness is produced due to quantum coherence in microtubules. The Orchestrated Reduction (OR) model [2] argues that quantum effects in neuron’s cytoskeletal microtubules form coherent states in macroscopic volumes of the brain.
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Plato Demosthenes
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 50
Karma: 5
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/07/07 01:59Well, standard computers - finite-state Turing Machines - are often used for the simulation and solving of quantum mechanical equations. Besides, the operations of microtubules are too macroscopic for quantum-mechanical effects to be observed. While I do admit that perhaps unknown mechanisms present in its molecular structure are possible, I do not see how they could significantly effect neurons, which, as the evidence indicates, are the clear source of sentience in humans. Neurons, instead of being described by quantum mechanical equations, are described very well by the Hodgkin-Huxely equations. While there might be some way in which the microtubules contribute to the neuronal"noise", even that lacks substantial evidence. So, really, there is little reason or need to use quantum notions in the explanation of the mind.
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Raúl
Moderator Moderator
Posts: 444
Karma: 6
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/07/09 19:09Unfortunately I am not familiar with Hodgkin-Huxley model. Could you recommend a good reference to read about it? Thanks!Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Plato Demosthenes
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 50
Karma: 5
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/07/09 22:59Try reading http://icwww.epfl.ch/~gerstner/SPNM/node1.html It is a great, in-depth resource on a great many aspects of the mathematical analysis of neurons and the brain, including the Hodgkin-Huxely model, amongst many others. I personally found it highly helpful.
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Raúl
Moderator Moderator
Posts: 444
Karma: 6
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/07/13 19:16As far as I know, there are two main factors why some scientists establish a link between quantum mechanics and theories of consciousness. On the one hand, it is believed that a conscious mind plays an important role in the process of quantum measurement, and any theory of consciousness should account for that. On the other hand, some authors think that classical physics cannot explain by itself the properties of mind, but it could be explained based on the special features of quantum mechanics [4]. The trick here is that conscious observation play a crucial role in quantum effects. I am not an expert on quantum mechanics, but I would say that a mere (unconscious) observation would play the same role. Wouldn’t it?
[4] Hameroff, S. R. y Penrose, R. (1996). Orchrestated reduction of quantum coherence in brain microtubules: A model for consciousness. Toward a Science of Consciousness. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Plato Demosthenes
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 50
Karma: 5
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/08/13 01:50Although I see no reason to resort to quantum mechanics when explaining consciousness, a Grand Unified Theory at an even more fundamental level might be used to explain it. At some point, philosophy and science will need to be reconciled into one (or several) overarching theory(theories). As all that philosophy can prove is the existence of minds, sentience will have to play an important role in this final theory. Although it is currently unclear if the GUT will be used to explain consciousness or vice-versa, the GUT would almost definitely be some extension of quantum mechanics. From that perspective, I suppose, insights into consciousness could possibly be derived from quantum mechanics. To what extent, though, is quantum mechanics an accurate description of reality at its basic level?
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Raúl
Moderator Moderator
Posts: 444
Karma: 6
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/08/13 19:27I think a Grand Unified Theory of physics could shed light on the problem of consciousness only if it happens to be true that consciousness is an elementary property of the matter (or energy). But, what if consciousness is a kind of side-effect, an emergent property of synergic processes in the brain? As I see it, quantum mechanics could explain how different functional processing units enter into states of coherence, thus forming coalitions or semantically linked concepts in the mind. But from my point of view that doesn’t explain qualia. It doesn’t solve the so-called hard problem. It is just an account to explain how distributed processing units can functionally be in synch at a given time. How that “synching” gives place to phenomenal experience is another story. Isn’t it?
And of course, as you point out in your post, how sure are we that quantum mechanics is an accurate description of reality? I would say that it is just the current interim interpretation. The discovery of the GUT could rewrite all current theories. The thing is whether or not it is possible to find such a GUT.Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Plato Demosthenes
User Platinum Boarder
Posts: 50
Karma: 5
Re:Quantum Consciousness - 2007/08/13 20:41Well, what I am thinking of is not so much a theory describing physical reality, a TOE, but a theory that explains reality as it can be percieved. It would have to be based on the TOE very strongly, but would also be rooted in philosophy.
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Definitely, cognitive functions of a human brain cannot be explained at the level of description of elementary particles or just physical laws. The problem, I think, is how to establish the right link between different levels of description. That’s probably the gap that needs to be bridged between neurology and a theory of mind. I wonder whether or not an analogous gap exists between other lower levels of description, e.g. between physics and chemistry, or between chemistry and biology.Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul
The administrator has disabled public write access. Please, register to participate in the
forum.
Forums... 
Conscious Robots RSS Feed
