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Raúl

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Re:Consciousness and Language - 2007/07/10 18:30 It is not evolving in the sense of using genetic algorithms. I mean that architectural design is still under redefinition. Anyhow, it is quite interesting what you mention. I thought about using evolutive computing for the generation of complex behaviors in the robot. However, I never heard of applying memetics to the field of formal languages. Could you please provide some insight about it?

I am still too far from applying language (in the sense of natural language processing) to the model. I am focusing now in the embodiment of the control system (grounding the cognitive model to the robot hardware). But other aspect of the role of language would be the so-called ‘mentalese’. Do you think this concept makes any sense? Or even exists in reality?

About the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, from my perspective there is no doubt that language is a key factor in a social subject, and obviously affects many thought patterns. However, I think there are many other thought patterns that are possible without the ability to develop a natural language. Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul

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Plato Demosthenes

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Re:Consciousness and Language - 2007/07/23 05:05 I mean that architectural design is still under redefinition. Ah, sorry

- in programming discussions it can be far too easy to interpret things over-literally.

However, I never heard of applying memetics to the field of formal languages. Could you please provide some insight about it? To be honest, I had hust assumed that prior work had been done on it. It seems like a logical idea, and with all of the work on memetics and language being done now, I supposed that a unification had already been made. Now that I consider, though, the formal model would be rather complex. I have started working on a model for it in my spare time. The link that you give on the Machievellan Hypothesis entry actually has a lot of useful information in it for this research.

I do think that the concept of mentalese makes sense, however I believe that it is vastly more complex than mere language (a complex structure itself). It would include, most likely, input considerations from all senses, prior thoughts, strange loops, memes, along with countless other details.

I also think that the power of mentalese may give rise, without language, to systems which may be called conscious. The problem, though, is finding just a single example to use that we could decide was or was not sentient. Then, many answers and clues will be given as to the nature of mentalese, I believe.

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Raúl

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Re:Consciousness and Language - 2007/07/24 15:00 I don’t think there’s any plausible model of the production of language in humans (using or not the concept of meme). At least as far as I know, there are working models of the physical production and analysis of speech in humans. Which are successfully used for automatic speech recognition and production. However, the cognitive formation and understanding of language is quite related to meaning, and that is from my perspective one of the unsolved problems in neuroscience. It would be quite interesting to see an experiment where language evolves in a kind of artificial Machiavellian environment. Subjective agents would use it as a mean for achieve social advantage. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any experiment like that, apart from the one mentioned in the link above.

About mentalese, I don’t know to what extend it is referred as to a kind of “proto-language” or an internal language used to dynamically “program” the brain components. In the first case, a protolanguage would be like a primitive language capability that any healthy human has. I mean an absolute protolanguage in the sense defined by the linguist Derek Bickerton [1]. It makes possible that you can learn a specific language.
On the other hand, I think mentalese could be regarded as a kind of programming facility that makes possible a structured communication between brain functional components. Does this second option make any sense?

I am having a look to a paper on the matter: [2]

[1] William H. Calvin and Derek Bickerton, Lingua ex Machina: Reconciling Darwin and Chomsky with the human brain (MIT Press, 2000).
[2] Vogt, P. (2006) Language evolution and robotics: Issues in symbol grounding and language acquisition. In Angelo Loula, Ricardo Gudwin, Joao Queiroz, editor, Artificial Cognition Systems. Idea Group.
http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/~paulv/publications/acsChapter.pdf Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul

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Raúl

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Re:Consciousness and Language - 2007/08/07 23:11 I am reading the book Theatre of the Mind by Jay Ingram and just found a footnote I think is interesting as it remarks the relation between language and attention:

It’s also true that while you can talk to your passenger and drive unconsciously, you can’t do the reverse – talk unconsciously and pay attention to the driving – suggesting that language and consciousness are more closely linked than driving and consciousness. Raúl Arrabales Moreno. conscious-robots.com/raul

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